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Lucien den Arend
Penttilä - Kangasniemi Finland (between Mikkeli and Jyväskylä)
NEDERLANDS

under construction

correspondence - e-mail 01 a request for intervention to the director of the central office of ---

English | Suomi | Nederlands

"This text speaks for itself. Up to the date of publication on this page there has been no reaction by him at all"
Lucien den Arend

 

Dear Mr.  director,
 
You surely know of our conflict with your --- in City1 - NoName (correspondence below). After my having discussed various things in English with Mr. NoName2, he now wants me to only use the Finnish language. So it now is necessary to write you.
 
Up to now I have used the English language to correspond with NoName. In most cases they have answered my e-mails in Finnish; and my wife was willing to translate them to me. Now I think NoName went too far in demanding that I write to them in Finnish. I think that my being a foreigner can not limit my right to receive good information and advice from your center.
 
Therefore I am asking you for adequate service from ---. We are in the process of making accommodations for summer and winter cottages on our kartano. But first we want our large house to have an ample heating system for ourselves. We consciously chose for geothermic heating - even though it is much more expensive to install - and it will take many years to break even. Still we want it and propagated this choice to many people we spoke to. One of whom recently bought Saksala in Haukivuori and also made the choice for this environment friendly heat source.
 
We are not accustomed to the very different way building in Finland works: I because I am Dutch and my wife emigrated from Finland to The Netherlands when she was just from school, twenty two years ago. So we need good advice; and that is just what we expected from a center like yours.
 
In the price that NoName calculated for our maalämpö system they stated that the warm air convectors* were not included. We would have to install them ourselves (like digging the trenches and taking responsibility for the proper way they were made and closed again - hoping for a good and functioning system - for who is responsible if there is a malfunction later?). So we waited for the results of our --- engineer (one has to do that himself in Finland) and then knew what type of convectors and how many we needed. In the meantime we have engaged a plumber to do all the water and wastewater work, as well as installing all the heating equipment and devices (which in the rest of Europe is the responsibility of the heating company - ---?).
 
So we phoned NoName and told them we would need five convectors of various types so that we could have our plumber install them as soon as possible. NoName did not tell us that in Finland it is included in the work of the plumber to supply these convectors. No, they said nothing and eagerly took our order.
 
When we asked our plumber to install the convectors that we had ordered, he told us that they were included in his price and he was ordering them. His turnover was incorporated in the installation costs of course and, in this case, he could only deduct the wholesale price. This means that we would have to pay the five hundred euro turnover to him as well as to NoName (which doesn't do anything for it).
 
So we phoned NoName and explained the situation, asking NoName2 to possibly have the order transferred to our plumber (as it would be very ridiculous to have them picked up, transported back to Helsinki, or wherever, then sending them back again in name of our plumber). But before we (my wife talked to him as well as I) could finish speaking he rudely said that that was out of the question and he did not want to discuss this any further. Then we asked our architect to call him and he was told that we would have to pay NoName very high costs to have the order taken back. I have never encountered a center that could not take back unopened goods. All we wanted is some consideration and a solution to the financial predicament. I do know there are possibilities to save us paying the turnover twice.
 
So, my question to you is: please help us to solve this problem. We chose for a very expensive, environment safe system - where we have to do and pay most of the work ourselves - and NoName wants more. Not mentioning the fact that they threatened to extend the delivery period of the maalämpö units drastically because of this problem; but thanks to my way of attacking the problem they were delivered yesterday. This time I am asking you for your help in a very friendly way. We thought Penttilä would become a good example of geothermic heating on a large scale; and so could Saksala on an even larger scale.
 
 
* I use the word convectors for the Rhoss Klimasystem VP units (we chose for these in order not to deface the interior of our kartano with masses of radiators).
 
Yours Sincerely,
Lucien den Arend
 
 

www.denarend.com

Penttilä
Seppäläntie 860
51200 Kangasniemi
Finland
+ 358 (0)44 264 12 12

 

 
-----Original Message-----
From: MrNoName2 NoNameXX [mailto:FirstName. NoName2@NoName.fi]
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 12:00 PM
To: Lucien den Arend
Subject: VS: Maalämpö asiaa

 
Hei
 
En ole englanninkielen taitoinen, joten pyydän lähettämään kaikki viestit suomeksi.
Maalämpölaiteet on tilattu maahantuojalta ja saapuvat niin pian kuin mahdollista.
Asennuksista sopikaa suoraan NoNamesen1 kanssa.
 

Lämpimin Terveisin

MrNoName2
NoNameXX
Street1
City1

-----Alkuperäinen viesti-----
Lähettäjä: Lucien den Arend [mailto:lucien@denarend.com]
Lähetetty: 21. marraskuuta 2003 9:55
Vastaanottaja: 'MrNoName2 NoNameXX'
Kopio: MrNoName0@---URL-0.fi; 'XXX'; 'export manager'; Saksala ArtRadius
Aihe: RE: Maalämpö asiaa

 

Dear --- Company1,

In the message below you say we have to order the unit/material by e-mail. In the telephone call of 45 minutes later you say that we have to fax our order.

First of all I would like to remind you that we have a contract which confirms that we have ordered the geothermic system this summer already; and we would not like to order any more units than what we already did. We only want you to deliver the one we bought and install it now.

In the first phone call, in which my wife told you that the unit can be installed next week, you affirmed that the delivery can be around that time. A half hour later, In the telephone call from the architect, you said that the delivery will now take many weeks. Is this the way a center in Finland punishes its clients for trying to have a problem set straight? We are not used to subservient behavior in the other part of Europe. We will not get used to it here; nor will we accept this medieval way of (not) having consideration with clients. So we (including our three young children) do not want to undergo ----NoName punishment - we did not order our heating system this summer to now have you let us to freeze to death. We want our heating finished in the period you promised during our first telephone call this morning. That means that the material we ordered last summer should be delivered in a human(e) time-span and fashion.

Then there are your two demands for ordering the material: is an e-mail not lawful, because we should fax you instead of e-mailing it? If so - wasn't our order for the convectors lawful then? Concerning this incident: our architect was surprised that you did not warn us that the ordering of an installation of these convectors is usually done by an LVI man; and that you let us order it anyway from you directly. You should be more accustomed to the way things work in Finland than we are. And it is your duty to give your clients good advice.

The consideration you have for clients is not commendable. We recommended your center to our friend at Saksala Art center in Haukivuori. We shall keep her, and not only her*, informed of our experiences with your center. You are letting us pay you profit on the convectors, while we are paying our plumber the same amount because it is in his price - not to mention three companies raising the price of the Italian producer - but we suppose that is business..


Your servants,
Lucien den Arend and Marjo Heikkinen - den Arend


* I have started an internet site today http://www.denarend.com/finland/morals/index.htm telling people (not only foreigners) about the way certain Finish companies conduct their business.

www.denarend.com

Penttilä
Seppäläntie 860
51200 Kangasniemi
Finland
+ 358 (0)44 264 12 12



-----Original Message-----
From: MrNoName2 NoNameXX [
mailto:FirstName. NoName2@NoName.fi]
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 9:29 AM
To: Marjo Heikkinen
Subject: Maalämpö asiaa



Hei

Maalämpöjärjestelmien tilaukseen ja toimitukseen liittyen muutama asia.

Laitteet tulee tilata hyvissä ajoin ennen toimitusta, sillä kaikella on toimitusaikansa. Pahimmassa tapauksessa useita viikkoja.

Asennukseen liittyvissä asioissa tulee sopia asia FirstName NoNamesen1. Myös hänellä on aikataulut, joten riittävän ajoissa yhteys.

Me toimitamme tavarat, sen mukaan miten meiltä tilataan. Emme siis ole missään tekemisissä teidän ja jonkun muun yrityksen välissä sopimuksissa.

Tilaus maalämpöpumpun toimitukselle tulee tehdä sähköpostilla, väärinkäsitysten välttämiseksi.



Lämpimin Terveisin

MrNoName2
NoNameXX
Street1
City1




 

 
 

www.denarend.com

 

Penttilä
Seppäläntie 860
51200 Kangasniemi
Finland
+ 358 (0)44 264 12 12

 

half truths | punishment through delivery period
threat with legal measures before the payment  date expires

correspondence

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